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    <fireside:genDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2026 15:17:35 -0500</fireside:genDate>
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    <title>Increments - Episodes Tagged with “Ulterior Motives”</title>
    <link>https://www.incrementspodcast.com/tags/ulterior%20motives</link>
    <pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2026 16:15:00 -0800</pubDate>
    <description>Vaden Masrani, a senior research scientist in machine learning, and Ben Chugg, a PhD student in statistics, get into trouble arguing about everything except machine learning and statistics. Coherence is somewhere on the horizon. Bribes, suggestions, love-mail and hate-mail all welcome at incrementspodcast@gmail.com.</description>
    <language>en-us</language>
    <itunes:type>episodic</itunes:type>
    <itunes:subtitle>Science, Philosophy, Epistemology, Mayhem</itunes:subtitle>
    <itunes:author>Ben Chugg and Vaden Masrani</itunes:author>
    <itunes:summary>Vaden Masrani, a senior research scientist in machine learning, and Ben Chugg, a PhD student in statistics, get into trouble arguing about everything except machine learning and statistics. Coherence is somewhere on the horizon. Bribes, suggestions, love-mail and hate-mail all welcome at incrementspodcast@gmail.com.</itunes:summary>
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    <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
    <itunes:keywords>Philosophy,Science,Ethics,Progress,Knowledge,Computer Science,Conversation,Error-Correction</itunes:keywords>
    <itunes:owner>
      <itunes:name>Ben Chugg and Vaden Masrani</itunes:name>
      <itunes:email>incrementspodcast@gmail.com</itunes:email>
    </itunes:owner>
<itunes:category text="Society &amp; Culture">
  <itunes:category text="Philosophy"/>
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<itunes:category text="Science"/>
<item>
  <title>#97 - Did Effective Altruism Have Ulterior Motives From the Beginning?</title>
  <link>https://www.incrementspodcast.com/97</link>
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  <pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2026 16:15:00 -0800</pubDate>
  <author>Ben Chugg and Vaden Masrani</author>
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  <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
  <itunes:author>Ben Chugg and Vaden Masrani</itunes:author>
  <itunes:subtitle>Was EA a front for AI safety the whole time? </itunes:subtitle>
  <itunes:duration>1:41:42</itunes:duration>
  <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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  <description>&lt;p&gt;Two years without discussing effective altruism -- did you miss it? Not as much as Vaden, surely. And probably a right bit more than Ben. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Well, we're back in the game with a spicy one. Was EA a front for AI safety from the beginning? Did the leaders care not a wit for global poverty? Is Ben going to throw himself out window if Vaden keeps this up? &lt;/p&gt;

We discuss

&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Feedback on our introspection episode &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;The motives of the EA founders &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;The felicia forum &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Is this a conspiracy theory?&lt;br&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;EA's strategic ambiguity &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Bostromism, transhumanism, and AI safety &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;EA funding &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;The public/core divide and the funnel model &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;

Quotes

&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;new effective altruists tend to start off concerned about global poverty or animal suffering and then hear, take seriously, and often are convinced by the arguments for existential risk mitigation&lt;br&gt;
- Will MacAskill &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Existential risk isn’t the most useful public face for effective altruism – everyone inc[l]uding Eliezer Yudkowsky agrees about that &lt;br&gt;
- Scott Alexander, 2015&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Utilitymonster: GWWC is explicitly poverty-focused but high impact careers (HIC) is not. In fact, hardcore members of GWWC are heavily interested in x-risk, and I estimate that 10-15% of its general membership is as well. I’d take them seriously as a group for promoting utilitarianism in general.&lt;br&gt;
I’m a GWWC leader.&lt;br&gt;
[Redacted]: but HIC always seems to talk about things in terms of “lives saved”, ive never heard them mentioning other things to donate to. […]&lt;br&gt;
Utilitymonster: That’s exactly the right thing for HIC to do. Talk about lives saved with their public face, let hardcore members hear about x-risk, and then, in the future, if some excellent x-risk opportunity arises, direct resources to x-risk. &lt;br&gt;
- From felicia forum. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

References

&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Gleiberman's paper: &lt;a href="https://medialibrary.uantwerpen.be/files/8518/61565cb6-e056-4e35-bd2e-d14d58e35231.pdf" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;https://medialibrary.uantwerpen.be/files/8518/61565cb6-e056-4e35-bd2e-d14d58e35231.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Old EA wikipedia page (web archive): &lt;a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20170409171350/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_altruism" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;https://web.archive.org/web/20170409171350/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_altruism&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Old CEA webpage (web archive): &lt;a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20161219031827/https://www.centreforeffectivealtruism.org/fundraising/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;https://web.archive.org/web/20161219031827/https://www.centreforeffectivealtruism.org/fundraising/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;

Socials

&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Follow us on Twitter at @IncrementsPod, @BennyChugg, @VadenMasrani&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Come join our discord server! DM us on twitter or send us an email to get a supersecret link&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Become a patreon subscriber&amp;nbsp;&lt;a href="https://www.patreon.com/Increments" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;. Or give us one-time cash donations to help cover our lack of cash donations&amp;nbsp;&lt;a href="https://ko-fi.com/increments" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Click dem like buttons on&amp;nbsp;&lt;a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_4wZzQyoW4s4ZuE4FY9DQQ" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;youtube&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Let us funnel you into the core group of super secret patreon supporters. Send us an email at &lt;a href="mailto:incrementspodcast@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;incrementspodcast@gmail.com&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/p&gt;
</description>
  <itunes:keywords>effective altruism, ulterior motives, AI safety, deception  </itunes:keywords>
  <content:encoded>
    <![CDATA[<p>Two years without discussing effective altruism -- did you miss it? Not as much as Vaden, surely. And probably a right bit more than Ben. </p>

<p>Well, we're back in the game with a spicy one. Was EA a front for AI safety from the beginning? Did the leaders care not a wit for global poverty? Is Ben going to throw himself out window if Vaden keeps this up? </p>

We discuss

<ul>
<li>Feedback on our introspection episode </li>
<li>The motives of the EA founders </li>
<li>The felicia forum </li>
<li>Is this a conspiracy theory?<br></li>
<li>EA's strategic ambiguity </li>
<li>Bostromism, transhumanism, and AI safety </li>
<li>EA funding </li>
<li>The public/core divide and the funnel model </li>
</ul>

Quotes

<blockquote>
<p>new effective altruists tend to start off concerned about global poverty or animal suffering and then hear, take seriously, and often are convinced by the arguments for existential risk mitigation<br>
- Will MacAskill </p>

<p>Existential risk isn’t the most useful public face for effective altruism – everyone inc[l]uding Eliezer Yudkowsky agrees about that <br>
- Scott Alexander, 2015</p>

<p>Utilitymonster: GWWC is explicitly poverty-focused but high impact careers (HIC) is not. In fact, hardcore members of GWWC are heavily interested in x-risk, and I estimate that 10-15% of its general membership is as well. I’d take them seriously as a group for promoting utilitarianism in general.<br>
I’m a GWWC leader.<br>
[Redacted]: but HIC always seems to talk about things in terms of “lives saved”, ive never heard them mentioning other things to donate to. […]<br>
Utilitymonster: That’s exactly the right thing for HIC to do. Talk about lives saved with their public face, let hardcore members hear about x-risk, and then, in the future, if some excellent x-risk opportunity arises, direct resources to x-risk. <br>
- From felicia forum. </p>
</blockquote>

References

<ul>
<li>Gleiberman's paper: <a href="https://medialibrary.uantwerpen.be/files/8518/61565cb6-e056-4e35-bd2e-d14d58e35231.pdf" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://medialibrary.uantwerpen.be/files/8518/61565cb6-e056-4e35-bd2e-d14d58e35231.pdf</a></li>
<li>Old EA wikipedia page (web archive): <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20170409171350/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_altruism" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://web.archive.org/web/20170409171350/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_altruism</a> </li>
<li>Old CEA webpage (web archive): <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20161219031827/https://www.centreforeffectivealtruism.org/fundraising/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://web.archive.org/web/20161219031827/https://www.centreforeffectivealtruism.org/fundraising/</a></li>
</ul>

Socials

<ul>
<li>Follow us on Twitter at @IncrementsPod, @BennyChugg, @VadenMasrani</li>
<li>Come join our discord server! DM us on twitter or send us an email to get a supersecret link</li>
<li>Become a patreon subscriber&nbsp;<a href="https://www.patreon.com/Increments" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">here</a>. Or give us one-time cash donations to help cover our lack of cash donations&nbsp;<a href="https://ko-fi.com/increments" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">here</a>.</li>
<li>Click dem like buttons on&nbsp;<a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_4wZzQyoW4s4ZuE4FY9DQQ" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">youtube</a></li>
</ul>

<p>Let us funnel you into the core group of super secret patreon supporters. Send us an email at <a href="mailto:incrementspodcast@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">incrementspodcast@gmail.com</a> </p><p><a rel="payment" href="https://www.patreon.com/Increments">Support Increments</a></p>]]>
  </content:encoded>
  <itunes:summary>
    <![CDATA[<p>Two years without discussing effective altruism -- did you miss it? Not as much as Vaden, surely. And probably a right bit more than Ben. </p>

<p>Well, we're back in the game with a spicy one. Was EA a front for AI safety from the beginning? Did the leaders care not a wit for global poverty? Is Ben going to throw himself out window if Vaden keeps this up? </p>

We discuss

<ul>
<li>Feedback on our introspection episode </li>
<li>The motives of the EA founders </li>
<li>The felicia forum </li>
<li>Is this a conspiracy theory?<br></li>
<li>EA's strategic ambiguity </li>
<li>Bostromism, transhumanism, and AI safety </li>
<li>EA funding </li>
<li>The public/core divide and the funnel model </li>
</ul>

Quotes

<blockquote>
<p>new effective altruists tend to start off concerned about global poverty or animal suffering and then hear, take seriously, and often are convinced by the arguments for existential risk mitigation<br>
- Will MacAskill </p>

<p>Existential risk isn’t the most useful public face for effective altruism – everyone inc[l]uding Eliezer Yudkowsky agrees about that <br>
- Scott Alexander, 2015</p>

<p>Utilitymonster: GWWC is explicitly poverty-focused but high impact careers (HIC) is not. In fact, hardcore members of GWWC are heavily interested in x-risk, and I estimate that 10-15% of its general membership is as well. I’d take them seriously as a group for promoting utilitarianism in general.<br>
I’m a GWWC leader.<br>
[Redacted]: but HIC always seems to talk about things in terms of “lives saved”, ive never heard them mentioning other things to donate to. […]<br>
Utilitymonster: That’s exactly the right thing for HIC to do. Talk about lives saved with their public face, let hardcore members hear about x-risk, and then, in the future, if some excellent x-risk opportunity arises, direct resources to x-risk. <br>
- From felicia forum. </p>
</blockquote>

References

<ul>
<li>Gleiberman's paper: <a href="https://medialibrary.uantwerpen.be/files/8518/61565cb6-e056-4e35-bd2e-d14d58e35231.pdf" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://medialibrary.uantwerpen.be/files/8518/61565cb6-e056-4e35-bd2e-d14d58e35231.pdf</a></li>
<li>Old EA wikipedia page (web archive): <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20170409171350/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_altruism" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://web.archive.org/web/20170409171350/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_altruism</a> </li>
<li>Old CEA webpage (web archive): <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20161219031827/https://www.centreforeffectivealtruism.org/fundraising/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">https://web.archive.org/web/20161219031827/https://www.centreforeffectivealtruism.org/fundraising/</a></li>
</ul>

Socials

<ul>
<li>Follow us on Twitter at @IncrementsPod, @BennyChugg, @VadenMasrani</li>
<li>Come join our discord server! DM us on twitter or send us an email to get a supersecret link</li>
<li>Become a patreon subscriber&nbsp;<a href="https://www.patreon.com/Increments" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">here</a>. Or give us one-time cash donations to help cover our lack of cash donations&nbsp;<a href="https://ko-fi.com/increments" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">here</a>.</li>
<li>Click dem like buttons on&nbsp;<a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_4wZzQyoW4s4ZuE4FY9DQQ" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">youtube</a></li>
</ul>

<p>Let us funnel you into the core group of super secret patreon supporters. Send us an email at <a href="mailto:incrementspodcast@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">incrementspodcast@gmail.com</a> </p><p><a rel="payment" href="https://www.patreon.com/Increments">Support Increments</a></p>]]>
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