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    <title>Increments - Episodes Tagged with “Kant”</title>
    <link>https://www.incrementspodcast.com/tags/kant</link>
    <pubDate>Mon, 27 Jan 2025 16:00:00 -0800</pubDate>
    <description>Vaden Masrani, a senior research scientist in machine learning, and Ben Chugg, a PhD student in statistics, get into trouble arguing about everything except machine learning and statistics. Coherence is somewhere on the horizon. Bribes, suggestions, love-mail and hate-mail all welcome at incrementspodcast@gmail.com.</description>
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    <itunes:subtitle>Science, Philosophy, Epistemology, Mayhem</itunes:subtitle>
    <itunes:author>Ben Chugg and Vaden Masrani</itunes:author>
    <itunes:summary>Vaden Masrani, a senior research scientist in machine learning, and Ben Chugg, a PhD student in statistics, get into trouble arguing about everything except machine learning and statistics. Coherence is somewhere on the horizon. Bribes, suggestions, love-mail and hate-mail all welcome at incrementspodcast@gmail.com.</itunes:summary>
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      <itunes:name>Ben Chugg and Vaden Masrani</itunes:name>
      <itunes:email>incrementspodcast@gmail.com</itunes:email>
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  <title>#80 (C&amp;R Series, Chap. 7) - Dare to Know: Immanuel Kant and the Enlightenment  </title>
  <link>https://www.incrementspodcast.com/80</link>
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  <pubDate>Mon, 27 Jan 2025 16:00:00 -0800</pubDate>
  <author>Ben Chugg and Vaden Masrani</author>
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  <itunes:subtitle>Back to the Conjectures and Refutations series. We discuss Immanuel Kant and his contributions to ethics, cosmology, politics, and the Enlightenment.</itunes:subtitle>
  <itunes:duration>1:06:47</itunes:duration>
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  <description>&lt;p&gt;Immanuel Kant was popular at his death. The whole town emptied out to see him. His last words were "it is good". But was his philosophy any good? In order to find out, we dive into Chapter 7 of Conjectures and Refutations: &lt;em&gt;Kant’s Critique and Cosmology,&lt;/em&gt; where Popper rescues Kant's reputation from the clutches of the dastardly German Idealists.  &lt;/p&gt;

We discuss

&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Deontology vs consquentialism vs virtue ethics &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Kant's Categorical Imperative&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Kant's contributions to cosmology and politics &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Kant as a defender of the enlightenment &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Romanticism vs (German) idealism vs critical rationalism &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Kant's cosmology and cosmogony &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Kant's antimony and his proofs that the universe is both finite and infinite in time &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Kant's Copernican revolution and transcendental idealism &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Kant's morality &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Why Popper admired Kant so much, and why he compares him to Socrates&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;

Quotes

&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed immaturity&lt;/em&gt;. &lt;em&gt;Immaturity&lt;/em&gt; is the inability to use one's understanding without guidance from another. This immaturity is &lt;em&gt;self-imposed&lt;/em&gt; when its cause lies not in lack of understanding, but in lack of resolve and courage to use it without guidance from another. &lt;em&gt;Sapere Aude!&lt;/em&gt; "Have courage to use your own understanding!" --that is the motto of enlightenment.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;em&gt;An Answer to the Question: What is Enlightenment? (Translated by Ted Humphrey, Hackett Publishing, 1992)&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;(Alternate translation from Popper: Enlightenment is the emancipation of man from a state of self-imposed tutelage . . . of incapacity to use his own intelligence without external guidance. Such a state of tutelage I call ‘self-imposed’ if it is due, not to lack of intelligence, but to lack of courage or determination to use one’s own intelligence without the help of a leader. Sapere aude! Dare to use your own intelligence! This is the battle-cry of the Enlightenment.)&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;- C&amp;amp;R, Chap 6&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;What lesson did Kant draw from these bewildering antinomies? He concluded that our ideas of space and time are inapplicable to the universe as a whole. We can, of course, apply the ideas of space and time to ordinary physical things and physical events. But space and time themselves are neither things nor events: they cannot even be observed: they are more elusive. They are a kind of framework for things and events: something like a system of pigeon-holes, or a filing system, for observations. Space and time are not part of the real empir- ical world of things and events, but rather part of our mental outfit, our apparatus for grasping this world. Their proper use is as instruments of observation: in observing any event we locate it, as a rule, immediately and intuitively in an order of space and time. Thus space and time may be described as a frame of reference which is not based upon experience but intuitively used in experience, and properly applicable to experience. This is why we get into trouble if we misapply the ideas of space and time by using them in a field which transcends all possible experience—as we did in our two proofs about the universe as a whole. &lt;br&gt;
...&lt;br&gt;
To the view which I have just outlined Kant chose to give the ugly and doubly misleading name ‘Transcendental Idealism’. He soon regretted this choice, for it made people believe that he was an idealist in the sense of denying the reality of physical things: that he declared physical things to be mere ideas. Kant hastened to explain that he had only denied that space and time are empirical and real — empirical and real in the sense in which physical things and events are empirical and real. But in vain did he protest. His difficult style sealed his fate: he was to be revered as the father of German Idealism. I suggest that it is time to put this right.&lt;br&gt;
- C&amp;amp;R, Chap 6&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Kant believed in the Enlightenment. He was its last great defender. I realize that this is not the usual view. While I see Kant as the defender of the Enlightenment, he is more often taken as the founder of the school which destroyed it—of the Romantic School of Fichte, Schelling, and Hegel. I contend that these two interpretations are incompatible.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Fichte, and later Hegel, tried to appropriate Kant as the founder of their school. But Kant lived long enough to reject the persistent advances of Fichte, who proclaimed himself Kant’s successor and heir. In &lt;em&gt;A Public Declaration Concerning Fichte,&lt;/em&gt; which is too little known, Kant wrote: ‘May God protect us from our friends. . . . For there are fraudulent and perfidious so-called friends who are scheming for our ruin while speaking the language of good-will.’&lt;br&gt;
- C&amp;amp;R, Chap 6&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;As Kant puts it, Copernicus, finding that no progress was being made with the theory of the revolving heavens, broke the deadlock by turning the tables, as it were: he assumed that it is not the heavens which revolve while we the observers stand still, but that we the observers revolve while the heavens stand still. In a similar way, Kant says, the problem of scientific knowledge is to be solved — the problem how an exact science, such as Newtonian theory, is possible, and how it could ever have been found. We must give up the view that we are passive observers, waiting for nature to impress its regularity upon us. Instead we must adopt the view that in digesting our sense-data we actively impress the order and the laws of our intellect upon them. Our cosmos bears the imprint of our minds.&lt;br&gt;
- C&amp;amp;R, Chap 6&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;From Kant the cosmologist, the philosopher of knowledge and of science, I now turn to Kant the moralist. I do not know whether it has been noticed before that the fundamental idea of Kant’s ethics amounts to another Copernican Revolution, analogous in every respect to the one I have described. For Kant makes man the lawgiver of morality just as he makes him the lawgiver of nature. And in doing so he gives back to man his central place both in his moral and in his physical universe. Kant humanized ethics, as he had humanized science.&lt;br&gt;
...&lt;br&gt;
Kant’s Copernican Revolution in the field of ethics is contained in his doctrine of autonomy—the doctrine that we cannot accept the command of an authority, however exalted, as the ultimate basis of ethics. For whenever we are faced with a command by an authority, it is our responsibility to judge whether this command is moral or immoral. The authority may have power to enforce its commands, and we may be powerless to resist. But unless we are physically prevented from choosing the responsibility remains ours. It is our decision whether to obey a command, whether to accept authority.&lt;br&gt;
- C&amp;amp;R, Chap 6&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Stepping back further to get a still more distant view of Kant’s historical role, we may compare him with Socrates. Both were accused of perverting the state religion, and of corrupting the minds of the young. Both denied the charge; and both stood up for freedom of thought. Freedom meant more to them than absence of constraint; it was for both a way of life.&lt;br&gt;
...&lt;br&gt;
To this Socratic idea of self-sufficiency, which forms part of our western heritage, Kant has given a new meaning in the fields of both knowledge and morals. And he has added to it further the idea of a community of free men—of all men. For he has shown that every man is free; not because he is born free, but because he is born with the burden of responsibility for free decision.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;- C&amp;amp;R, Chap 6&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Socials

&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Follow us on Twitter at @IncrementsPod, @BennyChugg, @VadenMasrani&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Come join our discord server! DM us on twitter or send us an email to get a supersecret link&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Become a patreon subscriber&amp;nbsp;&lt;a href="https://www.patreon.com/Increments" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;. Or give us one-time cash donations to help cover our lack of cash donations&amp;nbsp;&lt;a href="https://ko-fi.com/increments" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Click dem like buttons on&amp;nbsp;&lt;a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_4wZzQyoW4s4ZuE4FY9DQQ" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;youtube&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Follow the Kantian Imperative: Stop masturbating and/or/while getting your hair cut, and start sending emails over to &lt;a href="mailto:incrementspodcast@gmail.com" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;incrementspodcast@gmail.com&lt;/a&gt;. &lt;/p&gt;
</description>
  <itunes:keywords>Kant, Popper, conjectures and refutations, cosmology, enlightenment, kant, morality, popper, transcendental idealism, romanticism, categorical imperative</itunes:keywords>
  <content:encoded>
    <![CDATA[<p>Immanuel Kant was popular at his death. The whole town emptied out to see him. His last words were "it is good". But was his philosophy any good? In order to find out, we dive into Chapter 7 of Conjectures and Refutations: <em>Kant’s Critique and Cosmology,</em> where Popper rescues Kant's reputation from the clutches of the dastardly German Idealists.  </p>

We discuss

<ul>
<li>Deontology vs consquentialism vs virtue ethics </li>
<li>Kant's Categorical Imperative</li>
<li>Kant's contributions to cosmology and politics </li>
<li>Kant as a defender of the enlightenment </li>
<li>Romanticism vs (German) idealism vs critical rationalism </li>
<li>Kant's cosmology and cosmogony </li>
<li>Kant's antimony and his proofs that the universe is both finite and infinite in time </li>
<li>Kant's Copernican revolution and transcendental idealism </li>
<li>Kant's morality </li>
<li>Why Popper admired Kant so much, and why he compares him to Socrates</li>
</ul>

Quotes

<blockquote>
<p><em>Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed immaturity</em>. <em>Immaturity</em> is the inability to use one's understanding without guidance from another. This immaturity is <em>self-imposed</em> when its cause lies not in lack of understanding, but in lack of resolve and courage to use it without guidance from another. <em>Sapere Aude!</em> "Have courage to use your own understanding!" --that is the motto of enlightenment.</p>

<ul>
<li><em>An Answer to the Question: What is Enlightenment? (Translated by Ted Humphrey, Hackett Publishing, 1992)</em></li>
</ul>
</blockquote>

<p>(Alternate translation from Popper: Enlightenment is the emancipation of man from a state of self-imposed tutelage . . . of incapacity to use his own intelligence without external guidance. Such a state of tutelage I call ‘self-imposed’ if it is due, not to lack of intelligence, but to lack of courage or determination to use one’s own intelligence without the help of a leader. Sapere aude! Dare to use your own intelligence! This is the battle-cry of the Enlightenment.)</p>

<blockquote>
<p>- C&amp;R, Chap 6</p>

<p>What lesson did Kant draw from these bewildering antinomies? He concluded that our ideas of space and time are inapplicable to the universe as a whole. We can, of course, apply the ideas of space and time to ordinary physical things and physical events. But space and time themselves are neither things nor events: they cannot even be observed: they are more elusive. They are a kind of framework for things and events: something like a system of pigeon-holes, or a filing system, for observations. Space and time are not part of the real empir- ical world of things and events, but rather part of our mental outfit, our apparatus for grasping this world. Their proper use is as instruments of observation: in observing any event we locate it, as a rule, immediately and intuitively in an order of space and time. Thus space and time may be described as a frame of reference which is not based upon experience but intuitively used in experience, and properly applicable to experience. This is why we get into trouble if we misapply the ideas of space and time by using them in a field which transcends all possible experience—as we did in our two proofs about the universe as a whole. <br>
...<br>
To the view which I have just outlined Kant chose to give the ugly and doubly misleading name ‘Transcendental Idealism’. He soon regretted this choice, for it made people believe that he was an idealist in the sense of denying the reality of physical things: that he declared physical things to be mere ideas. Kant hastened to explain that he had only denied that space and time are empirical and real — empirical and real in the sense in which physical things and events are empirical and real. But in vain did he protest. His difficult style sealed his fate: he was to be revered as the father of German Idealism. I suggest that it is time to put this right.<br>
- C&amp;R, Chap 6</p>

<p>Kant believed in the Enlightenment. He was its last great defender. I realize that this is not the usual view. While I see Kant as the defender of the Enlightenment, he is more often taken as the founder of the school which destroyed it—of the Romantic School of Fichte, Schelling, and Hegel. I contend that these two interpretations are incompatible.</p>

<p>Fichte, and later Hegel, tried to appropriate Kant as the founder of their school. But Kant lived long enough to reject the persistent advances of Fichte, who proclaimed himself Kant’s successor and heir. In <em>A Public Declaration Concerning Fichte,</em> which is too little known, Kant wrote: ‘May God protect us from our friends. . . . For there are fraudulent and perfidious so-called friends who are scheming for our ruin while speaking the language of good-will.’<br>
- C&amp;R, Chap 6</p>

<p>As Kant puts it, Copernicus, finding that no progress was being made with the theory of the revolving heavens, broke the deadlock by turning the tables, as it were: he assumed that it is not the heavens which revolve while we the observers stand still, but that we the observers revolve while the heavens stand still. In a similar way, Kant says, the problem of scientific knowledge is to be solved — the problem how an exact science, such as Newtonian theory, is possible, and how it could ever have been found. We must give up the view that we are passive observers, waiting for nature to impress its regularity upon us. Instead we must adopt the view that in digesting our sense-data we actively impress the order and the laws of our intellect upon them. Our cosmos bears the imprint of our minds.<br>
- C&amp;R, Chap 6</p>

<p>From Kant the cosmologist, the philosopher of knowledge and of science, I now turn to Kant the moralist. I do not know whether it has been noticed before that the fundamental idea of Kant’s ethics amounts to another Copernican Revolution, analogous in every respect to the one I have described. For Kant makes man the lawgiver of morality just as he makes him the lawgiver of nature. And in doing so he gives back to man his central place both in his moral and in his physical universe. Kant humanized ethics, as he had humanized science.<br>
...<br>
Kant’s Copernican Revolution in the field of ethics is contained in his doctrine of autonomy—the doctrine that we cannot accept the command of an authority, however exalted, as the ultimate basis of ethics. For whenever we are faced with a command by an authority, it is our responsibility to judge whether this command is moral or immoral. The authority may have power to enforce its commands, and we may be powerless to resist. But unless we are physically prevented from choosing the responsibility remains ours. It is our decision whether to obey a command, whether to accept authority.<br>
- C&amp;R, Chap 6</p>

<blockquote>
<p>Stepping back further to get a still more distant view of Kant’s historical role, we may compare him with Socrates. Both were accused of perverting the state religion, and of corrupting the minds of the young. Both denied the charge; and both stood up for freedom of thought. Freedom meant more to them than absence of constraint; it was for both a way of life.<br>
...<br>
To this Socratic idea of self-sufficiency, which forms part of our western heritage, Kant has given a new meaning in the fields of both knowledge and morals. And he has added to it further the idea of a community of free men—of all men. For he has shown that every man is free; not because he is born free, but because he is born with the burden of responsibility for free decision.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>- C&amp;R, Chap 6</p>
</blockquote>

Socials

<ul>
<li>Follow us on Twitter at @IncrementsPod, @BennyChugg, @VadenMasrani</li>
<li>Come join our discord server! DM us on twitter or send us an email to get a supersecret link</li>
<li>Become a patreon subscriber&nbsp;<a href="https://www.patreon.com/Increments" rel="nofollow noopener">here</a>. Or give us one-time cash donations to help cover our lack of cash donations&nbsp;<a href="https://ko-fi.com/increments" rel="nofollow noopener">here</a>.</li>
<li>Click dem like buttons on&nbsp;<a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_4wZzQyoW4s4ZuE4FY9DQQ" rel="nofollow noopener">youtube</a></li>
</ul>

<p>Follow the Kantian Imperative: Stop masturbating and/or/while getting your hair cut, and start sending emails over to <a href="mailto:incrementspodcast@gmail.com" rel="nofollow noopener">incrementspodcast@gmail.com</a>.</p><p><a rel="payment" href="https://www.patreon.com/Increments">Support Increments</a></p>]]>
  </content:encoded>
  <itunes:summary>
    <![CDATA[<p>Immanuel Kant was popular at his death. The whole town emptied out to see him. His last words were "it is good". But was his philosophy any good? In order to find out, we dive into Chapter 7 of Conjectures and Refutations: <em>Kant’s Critique and Cosmology,</em> where Popper rescues Kant's reputation from the clutches of the dastardly German Idealists.  </p>

We discuss

<ul>
<li>Deontology vs consquentialism vs virtue ethics </li>
<li>Kant's Categorical Imperative</li>
<li>Kant's contributions to cosmology and politics </li>
<li>Kant as a defender of the enlightenment </li>
<li>Romanticism vs (German) idealism vs critical rationalism </li>
<li>Kant's cosmology and cosmogony </li>
<li>Kant's antimony and his proofs that the universe is both finite and infinite in time </li>
<li>Kant's Copernican revolution and transcendental idealism </li>
<li>Kant's morality </li>
<li>Why Popper admired Kant so much, and why he compares him to Socrates</li>
</ul>

Quotes

<blockquote>
<p><em>Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed immaturity</em>. <em>Immaturity</em> is the inability to use one's understanding without guidance from another. This immaturity is <em>self-imposed</em> when its cause lies not in lack of understanding, but in lack of resolve and courage to use it without guidance from another. <em>Sapere Aude!</em> "Have courage to use your own understanding!" --that is the motto of enlightenment.</p>

<ul>
<li><em>An Answer to the Question: What is Enlightenment? (Translated by Ted Humphrey, Hackett Publishing, 1992)</em></li>
</ul>
</blockquote>

<p>(Alternate translation from Popper: Enlightenment is the emancipation of man from a state of self-imposed tutelage . . . of incapacity to use his own intelligence without external guidance. Such a state of tutelage I call ‘self-imposed’ if it is due, not to lack of intelligence, but to lack of courage or determination to use one’s own intelligence without the help of a leader. Sapere aude! Dare to use your own intelligence! This is the battle-cry of the Enlightenment.)</p>

<blockquote>
<p>- C&amp;R, Chap 6</p>

<p>What lesson did Kant draw from these bewildering antinomies? He concluded that our ideas of space and time are inapplicable to the universe as a whole. We can, of course, apply the ideas of space and time to ordinary physical things and physical events. But space and time themselves are neither things nor events: they cannot even be observed: they are more elusive. They are a kind of framework for things and events: something like a system of pigeon-holes, or a filing system, for observations. Space and time are not part of the real empir- ical world of things and events, but rather part of our mental outfit, our apparatus for grasping this world. Their proper use is as instruments of observation: in observing any event we locate it, as a rule, immediately and intuitively in an order of space and time. Thus space and time may be described as a frame of reference which is not based upon experience but intuitively used in experience, and properly applicable to experience. This is why we get into trouble if we misapply the ideas of space and time by using them in a field which transcends all possible experience—as we did in our two proofs about the universe as a whole. <br>
...<br>
To the view which I have just outlined Kant chose to give the ugly and doubly misleading name ‘Transcendental Idealism’. He soon regretted this choice, for it made people believe that he was an idealist in the sense of denying the reality of physical things: that he declared physical things to be mere ideas. Kant hastened to explain that he had only denied that space and time are empirical and real — empirical and real in the sense in which physical things and events are empirical and real. But in vain did he protest. His difficult style sealed his fate: he was to be revered as the father of German Idealism. I suggest that it is time to put this right.<br>
- C&amp;R, Chap 6</p>

<p>Kant believed in the Enlightenment. He was its last great defender. I realize that this is not the usual view. While I see Kant as the defender of the Enlightenment, he is more often taken as the founder of the school which destroyed it—of the Romantic School of Fichte, Schelling, and Hegel. I contend that these two interpretations are incompatible.</p>

<p>Fichte, and later Hegel, tried to appropriate Kant as the founder of their school. But Kant lived long enough to reject the persistent advances of Fichte, who proclaimed himself Kant’s successor and heir. In <em>A Public Declaration Concerning Fichte,</em> which is too little known, Kant wrote: ‘May God protect us from our friends. . . . For there are fraudulent and perfidious so-called friends who are scheming for our ruin while speaking the language of good-will.’<br>
- C&amp;R, Chap 6</p>

<p>As Kant puts it, Copernicus, finding that no progress was being made with the theory of the revolving heavens, broke the deadlock by turning the tables, as it were: he assumed that it is not the heavens which revolve while we the observers stand still, but that we the observers revolve while the heavens stand still. In a similar way, Kant says, the problem of scientific knowledge is to be solved — the problem how an exact science, such as Newtonian theory, is possible, and how it could ever have been found. We must give up the view that we are passive observers, waiting for nature to impress its regularity upon us. Instead we must adopt the view that in digesting our sense-data we actively impress the order and the laws of our intellect upon them. Our cosmos bears the imprint of our minds.<br>
- C&amp;R, Chap 6</p>

<p>From Kant the cosmologist, the philosopher of knowledge and of science, I now turn to Kant the moralist. I do not know whether it has been noticed before that the fundamental idea of Kant’s ethics amounts to another Copernican Revolution, analogous in every respect to the one I have described. For Kant makes man the lawgiver of morality just as he makes him the lawgiver of nature. And in doing so he gives back to man his central place both in his moral and in his physical universe. Kant humanized ethics, as he had humanized science.<br>
...<br>
Kant’s Copernican Revolution in the field of ethics is contained in his doctrine of autonomy—the doctrine that we cannot accept the command of an authority, however exalted, as the ultimate basis of ethics. For whenever we are faced with a command by an authority, it is our responsibility to judge whether this command is moral or immoral. The authority may have power to enforce its commands, and we may be powerless to resist. But unless we are physically prevented from choosing the responsibility remains ours. It is our decision whether to obey a command, whether to accept authority.<br>
- C&amp;R, Chap 6</p>

<blockquote>
<p>Stepping back further to get a still more distant view of Kant’s historical role, we may compare him with Socrates. Both were accused of perverting the state religion, and of corrupting the minds of the young. Both denied the charge; and both stood up for freedom of thought. Freedom meant more to them than absence of constraint; it was for both a way of life.<br>
...<br>
To this Socratic idea of self-sufficiency, which forms part of our western heritage, Kant has given a new meaning in the fields of both knowledge and morals. And he has added to it further the idea of a community of free men—of all men. For he has shown that every man is free; not because he is born free, but because he is born with the burden of responsibility for free decision.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>- C&amp;R, Chap 6</p>
</blockquote>

Socials

<ul>
<li>Follow us on Twitter at @IncrementsPod, @BennyChugg, @VadenMasrani</li>
<li>Come join our discord server! DM us on twitter or send us an email to get a supersecret link</li>
<li>Become a patreon subscriber&nbsp;<a href="https://www.patreon.com/Increments" rel="nofollow noopener">here</a>. Or give us one-time cash donations to help cover our lack of cash donations&nbsp;<a href="https://ko-fi.com/increments" rel="nofollow noopener">here</a>.</li>
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<p>Follow the Kantian Imperative: Stop masturbating and/or/while getting your hair cut, and start sending emails over to <a href="mailto:incrementspodcast@gmail.com" rel="nofollow noopener">incrementspodcast@gmail.com</a>.</p><p><a rel="payment" href="https://www.patreon.com/Increments">Support Increments</a></p>]]>
  </itunes:summary>
</item>
<item>
  <title>#59 (C&amp;R, Chap 8) - On the Status of Science and Metaphysics (Plus reflections on the Brett Hall blog exchange) </title>
  <link>https://www.incrementspodcast.com/59</link>
  <guid isPermaLink="false">6363ebbf-c232-45f7-adbc-140ab1f61037</guid>
  <pubDate>Fri, 22 Dec 2023 12:00:00 -0800</pubDate>
  <author>Ben Chugg and Vaden Masrani</author>
  <enclosure url="https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/https://chrt.fm/track/1F5B4D/aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/3229e340-4bf1-42a5-a5b7-4f508a27131c/6363ebbf-c232-45f7-adbc-140ab1f61037.mp3" length="82956119" type="audio/mpeg"/>
  <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
  <itunes:author>Ben Chugg and Vaden Masrani</itunes:author>
  <itunes:subtitle>Chapter 8 of conjectures and refutations! Back on the horse baby, talkin' bout Kant, induction, irrefutability, induction - all the good stuff. Oh, and also Vaden's failed blog exchange w/ Brett Hall</itunes:subtitle>
  <itunes:duration>1:26:24</itunes:duration>
  <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
  <itunes:image href="https://media24.fireside.fm/file/fireside-images-2024/podcasts/images/3/3229e340-4bf1-42a5-a5b7-4f508a27131c/episodes/6/6363ebbf-c232-45f7-adbc-140ab1f61037/cover.jpg?v=1"/>
  <description>&lt;p&gt;Back to the C&amp;amp;R series baby! Feels goooooood. Need some bar-room explanations for why induction is impossible? We gotchu. Need some historical background on where your boy Isaac got his ideas? We gotchu. Need to know how to refute the irrefutable? Gotchu there too homie, because today we're diving into Conjectures and Refutations, Chapter 8: On the Status of Science and Metaphysics. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Oh, and we also discuss, in admittedly frustrated tones, the failed blog exchange between Brett Hall and Vaden on prediction and Austrianism. If you want the full listening experience, we suggest reading both posts before hearing our kvetching:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="https://vmasrani.github.io/blog/2023/predicting-human-behaviour/" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Vaden's post&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href="https://www.bretthall.org/blog/humans-are-creative" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Brett's "response"&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Hold on to your hats for this one listeners, because she starts off rather spicy. &lt;/p&gt;

We discuss

&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Why Kant believed in the truth of Newtonian mechanics &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Newton and his assertion that he arrived at his theory via induction &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Why this isn't true and is logically impossible&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Was Copernicus influenced by Platonic ideals?&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;How Kepler came up with the idea of elliptical orbits &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Why finite observations are always compatible with infinitely many theories &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Kant's paradox and his solution &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Popper's updated solution to Kant's paradox &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;The irrefutability of philosophical theories &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;How can we say that irrefutable theories are false?&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Annnnnd perhaps a few cheap shots here and there about Austrian Economics as well. 
# References &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Some &lt;a href="https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/copernicus/notes.html#note-6" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;background history&lt;/a&gt; on Copernicus and why Ben thinks Popper is wrong &lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;

Quotes

&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Listening to this statement you may well wonder how I can possibly hold a theory to be false and irrefutable at one and the same time—I who claim to be a rationalist. For how can a rationalist say of a theory that it is false and irrefutable? Is he not bound, as a rationalist, to refute a theory before he asserts that it is false? And conversely, is he not bound to admit that if a theory is irrefutable, it is true?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Now if we look upon a theory as a proposed solution to a set of problems, then the theory immediately lends itself to critical discussion—even if it is non-empirical and irrefutable. For we can now ask questions such as, Does it solve the problem? Does it solve it better than other theories? Has it perhaps merely shifted the problem? Is the solution simple? Is it fruitful? Does it perhaps contradict other philosophical theories needed for solving other problems?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Because, as you [Kant] said, we are not passive receptors of sense data, but active organisms. Because we react to our environment not always merely instinctively, but sometimes con- sciously and freely. Because we can invent myths, stories, theories; because we have a thirst for explanation, an insatiable curiosity, a wish to know. Because we not only invent stories and theories, but try them out and see whether they work and how they work. Because by a great effort, by trying hard and making many mistakes, we may sometimes, if we are lucky, succeed in hitting upon a story, an explanation, which ‘saves the phenomena’; perhaps by making up a myth about ‘invisibles’, such as atoms or gravitational forces, which explain the visible. Because knowledge is an adventure of ideas. These ideas, it is true, are produced by us, and not by the world around us; they are not merely the traces of repeated sensations or stimuli or what not; here you were right. But we are more active and free than even you believed; for similar observations or similar environmental situations do not, as your theory implied, produce similar explanations in different men. Nor is the fact that we create our theories, and that we attempt to impose them upon the world, an explanation of their success, as you believed. For the overwhelming majority of our theories, of our freely invented ideas, are unsuccessful; they do not stand up to searching tests, and are discarded as falsified by experience. Only a very few of them succeed, for a time, in the competitive struggle for survival.&lt;br&gt;
\ &lt;br&gt;
C&amp;amp;R Chapter 2&lt;/p&gt;

Socials
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Follow us on Twitter at @IncrementsPod, @BennyChugg, @VadenMasrani&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Come join our discord server! DM us on twitter or send us an email to get a supersecret link&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Help us fund more hour-long blog posts and get exclusive bonus content by becoming a patreon subscriber &lt;a href="https://www.patreon.com/Increments" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;. Or give us one-time cash donations to help cover anger management &lt;a href="https://ko-fi.com/increments" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Click dem like buttons on &lt;a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_4wZzQyoW4s4ZuE4FY9DQQ" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;youtube&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Would you rather be wrong or boring? Tell us at &lt;a href="mailto:incrementspodcast@gmail.com" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;incrementspodcast@gmail.com&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/p&gt;
</description>
  <itunes:keywords>conjectures-and-refutations, induction, Kant, metaphysics, irrefutability, Copernicus, austrianism, prediction</itunes:keywords>
  <content:encoded>
    <![CDATA[<p>Back to the C&amp;R series baby! Feels goooooood. Need some bar-room explanations for why induction is impossible? We gotchu. Need some historical background on where your boy Isaac got his ideas? We gotchu. Need to know how to refute the irrefutable? Gotchu there too homie, because today we're diving into Conjectures and Refutations, Chapter 8: On the Status of Science and Metaphysics. </p>

<p>Oh, and we also discuss, in admittedly frustrated tones, the failed blog exchange between Brett Hall and Vaden on prediction and Austrianism. If you want the full listening experience, we suggest reading both posts before hearing our kvetching:</p>

<ul>
<li><a href="https://vmasrani.github.io/blog/2023/predicting-human-behaviour/" rel="nofollow noopener">Vaden's post</a> </li>
<li><a href="https://www.bretthall.org/blog/humans-are-creative" rel="nofollow noopener">Brett's "response"</a> </li>
</ul>

<p>Hold on to your hats for this one listeners, because she starts off rather spicy. </p>

We discuss

<ul>
<li>Why Kant believed in the truth of Newtonian mechanics </li>
<li>Newton and his assertion that he arrived at his theory via induction </li>
<li>Why this isn't true and is logically impossible</li>
<li>Was Copernicus influenced by Platonic ideals?</li>
<li>How Kepler came up with the idea of elliptical orbits </li>
<li>Why finite observations are always compatible with infinitely many theories </li>
<li>Kant's paradox and his solution </li>
<li>Popper's updated solution to Kant's paradox </li>
<li>The irrefutability of philosophical theories </li>
<li>How can we say that irrefutable theories are false?</li>
<li>Annnnnd perhaps a few cheap shots here and there about Austrian Economics as well. 
# References </li>
<li>Some <a href="https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/copernicus/notes.html#note-6" rel="nofollow noopener">background history</a> on Copernicus and why Ben thinks Popper is wrong </li>
</ul>

Quotes

<blockquote>
<p>Listening to this statement you may well wonder how I can possibly hold a theory to be false and irrefutable at one and the same time—I who claim to be a rationalist. For how can a rationalist say of a theory that it is false and irrefutable? Is he not bound, as a rationalist, to refute a theory before he asserts that it is false? And conversely, is he not bound to admit that if a theory is irrefutable, it is true?</p>

<p>Now if we look upon a theory as a proposed solution to a set of problems, then the theory immediately lends itself to critical discussion—even if it is non-empirical and irrefutable. For we can now ask questions such as, Does it solve the problem? Does it solve it better than other theories? Has it perhaps merely shifted the problem? Is the solution simple? Is it fruitful? Does it perhaps contradict other philosophical theories needed for solving other problems?</p>

<p>Because, as you [Kant] said, we are not passive receptors of sense data, but active organisms. Because we react to our environment not always merely instinctively, but sometimes con- sciously and freely. Because we can invent myths, stories, theories; because we have a thirst for explanation, an insatiable curiosity, a wish to know. Because we not only invent stories and theories, but try them out and see whether they work and how they work. Because by a great effort, by trying hard and making many mistakes, we may sometimes, if we are lucky, succeed in hitting upon a story, an explanation, which ‘saves the phenomena’; perhaps by making up a myth about ‘invisibles’, such as atoms or gravitational forces, which explain the visible. Because knowledge is an adventure of ideas. These ideas, it is true, are produced by us, and not by the world around us; they are not merely the traces of repeated sensations or stimuli or what not; here you were right. But we are more active and free than even you believed; for similar observations or similar environmental situations do not, as your theory implied, produce similar explanations in different men. Nor is the fact that we create our theories, and that we attempt to impose them upon the world, an explanation of their success, as you believed. For the overwhelming majority of our theories, of our freely invented ideas, are unsuccessful; they do not stand up to searching tests, and are discarded as falsified by experience. Only a very few of them succeed, for a time, in the competitive struggle for survival.<br>
\ <br>
C&amp;R Chapter 2</p>

Socials
</blockquote>

<ul>
<li>Follow us on Twitter at @IncrementsPod, @BennyChugg, @VadenMasrani</li>
<li>Come join our discord server! DM us on twitter or send us an email to get a supersecret link</li>
<li>Help us fund more hour-long blog posts and get exclusive bonus content by becoming a patreon subscriber <a href="https://www.patreon.com/Increments" rel="nofollow noopener">here</a>. Or give us one-time cash donations to help cover anger management <a href="https://ko-fi.com/increments" rel="nofollow noopener">here</a>.</li>
<li>Click dem like buttons on <a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_4wZzQyoW4s4ZuE4FY9DQQ" rel="nofollow noopener">youtube</a></li>
</ul>

<p>Would you rather be wrong or boring? Tell us at <a href="mailto:incrementspodcast@gmail.com" rel="nofollow noopener">incrementspodcast@gmail.com</a></p><p><a rel="payment" href="https://www.patreon.com/Increments">Support Increments</a></p>]]>
  </content:encoded>
  <itunes:summary>
    <![CDATA[<p>Back to the C&amp;R series baby! Feels goooooood. Need some bar-room explanations for why induction is impossible? We gotchu. Need some historical background on where your boy Isaac got his ideas? We gotchu. Need to know how to refute the irrefutable? Gotchu there too homie, because today we're diving into Conjectures and Refutations, Chapter 8: On the Status of Science and Metaphysics. </p>

<p>Oh, and we also discuss, in admittedly frustrated tones, the failed blog exchange between Brett Hall and Vaden on prediction and Austrianism. If you want the full listening experience, we suggest reading both posts before hearing our kvetching:</p>

<ul>
<li><a href="https://vmasrani.github.io/blog/2023/predicting-human-behaviour/" rel="nofollow noopener">Vaden's post</a> </li>
<li><a href="https://www.bretthall.org/blog/humans-are-creative" rel="nofollow noopener">Brett's "response"</a> </li>
</ul>

<p>Hold on to your hats for this one listeners, because she starts off rather spicy. </p>

We discuss

<ul>
<li>Why Kant believed in the truth of Newtonian mechanics </li>
<li>Newton and his assertion that he arrived at his theory via induction </li>
<li>Why this isn't true and is logically impossible</li>
<li>Was Copernicus influenced by Platonic ideals?</li>
<li>How Kepler came up with the idea of elliptical orbits </li>
<li>Why finite observations are always compatible with infinitely many theories </li>
<li>Kant's paradox and his solution </li>
<li>Popper's updated solution to Kant's paradox </li>
<li>The irrefutability of philosophical theories </li>
<li>How can we say that irrefutable theories are false?</li>
<li>Annnnnd perhaps a few cheap shots here and there about Austrian Economics as well. 
# References </li>
<li>Some <a href="https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/copernicus/notes.html#note-6" rel="nofollow noopener">background history</a> on Copernicus and why Ben thinks Popper is wrong </li>
</ul>

Quotes

<blockquote>
<p>Listening to this statement you may well wonder how I can possibly hold a theory to be false and irrefutable at one and the same time—I who claim to be a rationalist. For how can a rationalist say of a theory that it is false and irrefutable? Is he not bound, as a rationalist, to refute a theory before he asserts that it is false? And conversely, is he not bound to admit that if a theory is irrefutable, it is true?</p>

<p>Now if we look upon a theory as a proposed solution to a set of problems, then the theory immediately lends itself to critical discussion—even if it is non-empirical and irrefutable. For we can now ask questions such as, Does it solve the problem? Does it solve it better than other theories? Has it perhaps merely shifted the problem? Is the solution simple? Is it fruitful? Does it perhaps contradict other philosophical theories needed for solving other problems?</p>

<p>Because, as you [Kant] said, we are not passive receptors of sense data, but active organisms. Because we react to our environment not always merely instinctively, but sometimes con- sciously and freely. Because we can invent myths, stories, theories; because we have a thirst for explanation, an insatiable curiosity, a wish to know. Because we not only invent stories and theories, but try them out and see whether they work and how they work. Because by a great effort, by trying hard and making many mistakes, we may sometimes, if we are lucky, succeed in hitting upon a story, an explanation, which ‘saves the phenomena’; perhaps by making up a myth about ‘invisibles’, such as atoms or gravitational forces, which explain the visible. Because knowledge is an adventure of ideas. These ideas, it is true, are produced by us, and not by the world around us; they are not merely the traces of repeated sensations or stimuli or what not; here you were right. But we are more active and free than even you believed; for similar observations or similar environmental situations do not, as your theory implied, produce similar explanations in different men. Nor is the fact that we create our theories, and that we attempt to impose them upon the world, an explanation of their success, as you believed. For the overwhelming majority of our theories, of our freely invented ideas, are unsuccessful; they do not stand up to searching tests, and are discarded as falsified by experience. Only a very few of them succeed, for a time, in the competitive struggle for survival.<br>
\ <br>
C&amp;R Chapter 2</p>

Socials
</blockquote>

<ul>
<li>Follow us on Twitter at @IncrementsPod, @BennyChugg, @VadenMasrani</li>
<li>Come join our discord server! DM us on twitter or send us an email to get a supersecret link</li>
<li>Help us fund more hour-long blog posts and get exclusive bonus content by becoming a patreon subscriber <a href="https://www.patreon.com/Increments" rel="nofollow noopener">here</a>. Or give us one-time cash donations to help cover anger management <a href="https://ko-fi.com/increments" rel="nofollow noopener">here</a>.</li>
<li>Click dem like buttons on <a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_4wZzQyoW4s4ZuE4FY9DQQ" rel="nofollow noopener">youtube</a></li>
</ul>

<p>Would you rather be wrong or boring? Tell us at <a href="mailto:incrementspodcast@gmail.com" rel="nofollow noopener">incrementspodcast@gmail.com</a></p><p><a rel="payment" href="https://www.patreon.com/Increments">Support Increments</a></p>]]>
  </itunes:summary>
</item>
  </channel>
</rss>
