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    <fireside:genDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2026 08:36:40 -0500</fireside:genDate>
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    <title>Increments - Episodes Tagged with “Doomerism”</title>
    <link>https://www.incrementspodcast.com/tags/doomerism</link>
    <pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2025 18:00:00 -0700</pubDate>
    <description>Vaden Masrani, a senior research scientist in machine learning, and Ben Chugg, a PhD student in statistics, get into trouble arguing about everything except machine learning and statistics. Coherence is somewhere on the horizon. 
Bribes, suggestions, love-mail and hate-mail all welcome at incrementspodcast@gmail.com. 
</description>
    <language>en-us</language>
    <itunes:type>episodic</itunes:type>
    <itunes:subtitle>Science, Philosophy, Epistemology, Mayhem</itunes:subtitle>
    <itunes:author>Ben Chugg and Vaden Masrani</itunes:author>
    <itunes:summary>Vaden Masrani, a senior research scientist in machine learning, and Ben Chugg, a PhD student in statistics, get into trouble arguing about everything except machine learning and statistics. Coherence is somewhere on the horizon. 
Bribes, suggestions, love-mail and hate-mail all welcome at incrementspodcast@gmail.com. 
</itunes:summary>
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    <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
    <itunes:keywords>Philosophy,Science,Ethics,Progress,Knowledge,Computer Science,Conversation,Error-Correction</itunes:keywords>
    <itunes:owner>
      <itunes:name>Ben Chugg and Vaden Masrani</itunes:name>
      <itunes:email>incrementspodcast@gmail.com</itunes:email>
    </itunes:owner>
<itunes:category text="Society &amp; Culture">
  <itunes:category text="Philosophy"/>
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<itunes:category text="Science"/>
<item>
  <title>#90 (Reaction) - Disbelieving AI 2027: Responding to "Why We're Not Ready For Superintelligence"</title>
  <link>https://www.incrementspodcast.com/90</link>
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  <pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2025 18:00:00 -0700</pubDate>
  <author>Ben Chugg and Vaden Masrani</author>
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  <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
  <itunes:author>Ben Chugg and Vaden Masrani</itunes:author>
  <itunes:subtitle>The boys are hooked on reaction videos. This time: 80,000 hours' "Why we're not ready for superintelligence." </itunes:subtitle>
  <itunes:duration>1:35:32</itunes:duration>
  <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
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  <description>Always the uncool kids at the table, Ben and Vaden push back against the AGI hype domininating every second episode of every second podcast. We react to "We're not ready for superintelligence" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KVDDfAkRgc) by 80,000 Hours - a bleak portrayal of the pre and post AGI world. Can Ben keep Vaden's sass in check? Can the 80,000 hours team find enough cubes for AGI? Is Agent-5 listening to you RIGHT NOW?
Listener Note:
We strongly recommend watching the video for this one, available both on youtube and spotify:
    - https://www.youtube.com/@incrementspod
    - https://open.spotify.com/show/1gKKSP5HKT4Nk3i0y4UseB 
We discuss
The incentives of superforecasters 
Arguments by authority
Whether superintelligence is right around the corner 
The difference between model size and data 
Are we running out of high quality data?
Does training on synthetic data work? 
The assumptions behind the AGI claims 
The pitfalls of reasoning from trends
References
Michael I Jordan (https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~jordan/)
Neil Lawrence (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Lawrence)  
Important technical paper from Jordan pushing back on Doomerism (A Collectivist, Economic Perspective on AI) 
Jordan article talking about dangers of using AlphaFold data (https://news.berkeley.edu/2023/11/09/how-to-use-ai-for-discovery-without-leading-science-astray/)
Nature paper showing you can't use synthetic data to train bigger models  (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07566-y)
Paper estimating of when training data will run out (https://arxiv.org/abs/2211.04325v2) (Coincidentally enough, sometime between 2027-2028)
Socials
Follow us on Twitter at @IncrementsPod, @BennyChugg, @VadenMasrani
Come join our discord server! DM us on twitter or send us an email to get a supersecret link
Become a patreon subscriber here (https://www.patreon.com/Increments). Or give us one-time cash donations to help cover our lack of cash donations here (https://ko-fi.com/increments).
Click dem like buttons on youtube (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_4wZzQyoW4s4ZuE4FY9DQQ)
But how many cubes until we get to AGI though? Send a few of your cubes over to incrementspodcast@gmail.com
Episode header image from here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&amp;amp;v=0Jsrux_XY8Y&amp;amp;ab_channel=TheAlgorithmicVoice). 
</description>
  <itunes:keywords>AI, AGI, superintelligence, trends, doomerism, technology, progress</itunes:keywords>
  <content:encoded>
    <![CDATA[<p>Always the uncool kids at the table, Ben and Vaden push back against the AGI hype domininating every second episode of every second podcast. We react to <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KVDDfAkRgc" rel="nofollow">&quot;We&#39;re not ready for superintelligence&quot;</a> by 80,000 Hours - a bleak portrayal of the pre and post AGI world. Can Ben keep Vaden&#39;s sass in check? Can the 80,000 hours team find enough cubes for AGI? Is Agent-5 listening to you RIGHT NOW?</p>

<h1>Listener Note:</h1>

<p>We strongly recommend watching the video for this one, available both on youtube and spotify:<br>
    - <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@incrementspod" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/@incrementspod</a><br>
    - <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/1gKKSP5HKT4Nk3i0y4UseB" rel="nofollow">https://open.spotify.com/show/1gKKSP5HKT4Nk3i0y4UseB</a> </p>

<h1>We discuss</h1>

<ul>
<li>The incentives of superforecasters </li>
<li>Arguments by authority</li>
<li>Whether superintelligence is right around the corner </li>
<li>The difference between model size and data </li>
<li>Are we running out of high quality data?</li>
<li>Does training on synthetic data work? </li>
<li>The assumptions behind the AGI claims </li>
<li>The pitfalls of reasoning from trends</li>
</ul>

<h1>References</h1>

<ul>
<li><a href="https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/%7Ejordan/" rel="nofollow">Michael I Jordan</a></li>
<li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Lawrence" rel="nofollow">Neil Lawrence</a><br></li>
<li>[Important technical paper from Jordan pushing back on Doomerism](A Collectivist, Economic Perspective on AI) </li>
<li><a href="https://news.berkeley.edu/2023/11/09/how-to-use-ai-for-discovery-without-leading-science-astray/" rel="nofollow">Jordan article talking about dangers of using AlphaFold data</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07566-y" rel="nofollow">Nature paper showing you can&#39;t use synthetic data to train bigger models </a></li>
<li><a href="https://arxiv.org/abs/2211.04325v2" rel="nofollow">Paper estimating of when training data will run out</a> (Coincidentally enough, sometime between 2027-2028)</li>
</ul>

<h1>Socials</h1>

<ul>
<li>Follow us on Twitter at @IncrementsPod, @BennyChugg, @VadenMasrani</li>
<li>Come join our discord server! DM us on twitter or send us an email to get a supersecret link</li>
<li>Become a patreon subscriber <a href="https://www.patreon.com/Increments" rel="nofollow">here</a>. Or give us one-time cash donations to help cover our lack of cash donations <a href="https://ko-fi.com/increments" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</li>
<li>Click dem like buttons on <a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_4wZzQyoW4s4ZuE4FY9DQQ" rel="nofollow">youtube</a></li>
</ul>

<p>But how many cubes until we get to AGI though? Send a few of your cubes over to <a href="mailto:incrementspodcast@gmail.com" rel="nofollow">incrementspodcast@gmail.com</a></p>

<p>Episode header image from <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=0Jsrux_XY8Y&ab_channel=TheAlgorithmicVoice" rel="nofollow">here</a>. </p><p><a rel="payment" href="https://www.patreon.com/Increments">Support Increments</a></p>]]>
  </content:encoded>
  <itunes:summary>
    <![CDATA[<p>Always the uncool kids at the table, Ben and Vaden push back against the AGI hype domininating every second episode of every second podcast. We react to <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KVDDfAkRgc" rel="nofollow">&quot;We&#39;re not ready for superintelligence&quot;</a> by 80,000 Hours - a bleak portrayal of the pre and post AGI world. Can Ben keep Vaden&#39;s sass in check? Can the 80,000 hours team find enough cubes for AGI? Is Agent-5 listening to you RIGHT NOW?</p>

<h1>Listener Note:</h1>

<p>We strongly recommend watching the video for this one, available both on youtube and spotify:<br>
    - <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@incrementspod" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/@incrementspod</a><br>
    - <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/1gKKSP5HKT4Nk3i0y4UseB" rel="nofollow">https://open.spotify.com/show/1gKKSP5HKT4Nk3i0y4UseB</a> </p>

<h1>We discuss</h1>

<ul>
<li>The incentives of superforecasters </li>
<li>Arguments by authority</li>
<li>Whether superintelligence is right around the corner </li>
<li>The difference between model size and data </li>
<li>Are we running out of high quality data?</li>
<li>Does training on synthetic data work? </li>
<li>The assumptions behind the AGI claims </li>
<li>The pitfalls of reasoning from trends</li>
</ul>

<h1>References</h1>

<ul>
<li><a href="https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/%7Ejordan/" rel="nofollow">Michael I Jordan</a></li>
<li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Lawrence" rel="nofollow">Neil Lawrence</a><br></li>
<li>[Important technical paper from Jordan pushing back on Doomerism](A Collectivist, Economic Perspective on AI) </li>
<li><a href="https://news.berkeley.edu/2023/11/09/how-to-use-ai-for-discovery-without-leading-science-astray/" rel="nofollow">Jordan article talking about dangers of using AlphaFold data</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07566-y" rel="nofollow">Nature paper showing you can&#39;t use synthetic data to train bigger models </a></li>
<li><a href="https://arxiv.org/abs/2211.04325v2" rel="nofollow">Paper estimating of when training data will run out</a> (Coincidentally enough, sometime between 2027-2028)</li>
</ul>

<h1>Socials</h1>

<ul>
<li>Follow us on Twitter at @IncrementsPod, @BennyChugg, @VadenMasrani</li>
<li>Come join our discord server! DM us on twitter or send us an email to get a supersecret link</li>
<li>Become a patreon subscriber <a href="https://www.patreon.com/Increments" rel="nofollow">here</a>. Or give us one-time cash donations to help cover our lack of cash donations <a href="https://ko-fi.com/increments" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</li>
<li>Click dem like buttons on <a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_4wZzQyoW4s4ZuE4FY9DQQ" rel="nofollow">youtube</a></li>
</ul>

<p>But how many cubes until we get to AGI though? Send a few of your cubes over to <a href="mailto:incrementspodcast@gmail.com" rel="nofollow">incrementspodcast@gmail.com</a></p>

<p>Episode header image from <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=0Jsrux_XY8Y&ab_channel=TheAlgorithmicVoice" rel="nofollow">here</a>. </p><p><a rel="payment" href="https://www.patreon.com/Increments">Support Increments</a></p>]]>
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