<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<rss version="2.0" encoding="UTF-8" xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/" xmlns:admin="http://webns.net/mvcb/" xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom/" xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#" xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/" xmlns:googleplay="http://www.google.com/schemas/play-podcasts/1.0" xmlns:itunes="http://www.itunes.com/dtds/podcast-1.0.dtd" xmlns:fireside="http://fireside.fm/modules/rss/fireside">
  <channel>
    <fireside:hostname>web01.fireside.fm</fireside:hostname>
    <fireside:genDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2026 14:02:57 -0500</fireside:genDate>
    <generator>Fireside (https://fireside.fm)</generator>
    <title>Increments - Episodes Tagged with “Determinism”</title>
    <link>https://www.incrementspodcast.com/tags/determinism</link>
    <pubDate>Wed, 17 Jan 2024 09:00:00 -0800</pubDate>
    <description>Vaden Masrani, a senior research scientist in machine learning, and Ben Chugg, a PhD student in statistics, get into trouble arguing about everything except machine learning and statistics. Coherence is somewhere on the horizon. 
Bribes, suggestions, love-mail and hate-mail all welcome at incrementspodcast@gmail.com. 
</description>
    <language>en-us</language>
    <itunes:type>episodic</itunes:type>
    <itunes:subtitle>Science, Philosophy, Epistemology, Mayhem</itunes:subtitle>
    <itunes:author>Ben Chugg and Vaden Masrani</itunes:author>
    <itunes:summary>Vaden Masrani, a senior research scientist in machine learning, and Ben Chugg, a PhD student in statistics, get into trouble arguing about everything except machine learning and statistics. Coherence is somewhere on the horizon. 
Bribes, suggestions, love-mail and hate-mail all welcome at incrementspodcast@gmail.com. 
</itunes:summary>
    <itunes:image href="https://media24.fireside.fm/file/fireside-images-2024/podcasts/images/3/3229e340-4bf1-42a5-a5b7-4f508a27131c/cover.jpg?v=18"/>
    <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
    <itunes:keywords>Philosophy,Science,Ethics,Progress,Knowledge,Computer Science,Conversation,Error-Correction</itunes:keywords>
    <itunes:owner>
      <itunes:name>Ben Chugg and Vaden Masrani</itunes:name>
      <itunes:email>incrementspodcast@gmail.com</itunes:email>
    </itunes:owner>
<itunes:category text="Society &amp; Culture">
  <itunes:category text="Philosophy"/>
</itunes:category>
<itunes:category text="Science"/>
<item>
  <title>#61 - Debating Free Will: Frankenstein's Monster and a Filmstrip of the Universe (with Lucas Smalldon)</title>
  <link>https://www.incrementspodcast.com/61</link>
  <guid isPermaLink="false">e4357549-eb00-4824-8de7-822f7a647743</guid>
  <pubDate>Wed, 17 Jan 2024 09:00:00 -0800</pubDate>
  <author>Ben Chugg and Vaden Masrani</author>
  <enclosure url="https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/https://chrt.fm/track/1F5B4D/aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/3229e340-4bf1-42a5-a5b7-4f508a27131c/e4357549-eb00-4824-8de7-822f7a647743.mp3" length="100168937" type="audio/mpeg"/>
  <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
  <itunes:author>Ben Chugg and Vaden Masrani</itunes:author>
  <itunes:subtitle>We have Lucas Smalldon on for a good ol' fashion free will debate. In particular, we discuss his blog post "Reconciling Free Will with Determinism" and try to sort of the age old question of whether or not we have the ability to make choices. </itunes:subtitle>
  <itunes:duration>1:42:49</itunes:duration>
  <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
  <itunes:image href="https://media24.fireside.fm/file/fireside-images-2024/podcasts/images/3/3229e340-4bf1-42a5-a5b7-4f508a27131c/episodes/e/e4357549-eb00-4824-8de7-822f7a647743/cover.jpg?v=3"/>
  <description>While you're reading this you're having a thought. Something like "wow, I love the Increments podcast", or "those hosts are some handsome" or "I really wish people would stop talking about free will." Do you have a choice in the matter? Are you free to choose what you're thinking in any given moment, or is it determined by your genetics, environment, and existing ideas? Is the universe determined, are we all Frankenstein's monster? How does one profitably think about that question? Today we have Lucas Smalldon on to help us think through these questions. 
We reference Lucas's blog post titled reconciling-determinism-and-free-will (https://barelymorethanatweet.com/2021/01/05/reconciling-determinism-and-free-will/). Because it's is barely more than a tweet, we've included the entire post here as well: 
Reconciling Free Will with Determinism
Free will and determinism seem to conflict with each other. But the apparent conflict disappears when we understand that determinism and free will simply describe the world from radically different perspectives and at fundamentally different levels. Free will makes sense only within the context of the physical world, whereas determinism makes sense only from a perspective that is outside the physical world. Consider the determinist statement, “The future exists and has always existed”. It seems like a contradiction in terms, but only because our language forces us to express the idea misleadingly in terms of the past and future. If we assign special meanings to the temporal words in the statement—namely, if by the future we mean “objectively real events that from the perspective of our present have not yet happened”; and if by always we mean “transcending time itself” rather than the usual “existing across all time”—then the contradiction resolves. Assigning these special meanings allows us to express determinism as atemporal and objective: as a description of a physical reality of which time is an attribute. Conversely, free will, which is by far the more intuitive concept, is needed to explain certain kinds of events (i.e., choices) that occur within time, and thus within the physical world that determinism describes from the outside. Determinism and free will are compatible. We really do make choices. It’s just that, from an atemporal determinist perspective, these choices have “always” existed.
Follow Lucas on twitter (https://twitter.com/reason_wit_me?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) or check out his blog (https://barelymorethanatweet.com/). 
We discuss
Levels of explanation regarding free will 
The (in)compatibility of different levels of explanation
Why the lack of free will does not hinge on reductionism
Memetic arguments for the non-existence of free will 
Whether we can have moral responsibility without free will 
The universe as a filmstrip 
Whether we're all just Frankenstein's monster 
Socials
Follow us on Twitter at @IncrementsPod, @BennyChugg, @VadenMasrani
Come join our discord server! DM us on twitter or send us an email to get a supersecret link
Help us find freedom and get exclusive bonus content by becoming a patreon subscriber here (https://www.patreon.com/Increments). Or give us one-time cash donations to help cover our lack of cash donations here (https://ko-fi.com/increments).
Click dem like buttons on youtube (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_4wZzQyoW4s4ZuE4FY9DQQ)
How much do you want to want Frankenstein's monster? Send your answer down the tubes and over to incrementspodcast@gmail.com
 Special Guest: Lucas Smalldon.
</description>
  <itunes:keywords>free will, determinism, moral responsibility, explanation, reductionism</itunes:keywords>
  <content:encoded>
    <![CDATA[<p>While you&#39;re reading this you&#39;re having a thought. Something like &quot;wow, I love the Increments podcast&quot;, or &quot;those hosts are some handsome&quot; or &quot;I really wish people would stop talking about free will.&quot; Do you have a choice in the matter? Are you free to choose what you&#39;re thinking in any given moment, or is it determined by your genetics, environment, and existing ideas? Is the universe determined, are we all Frankenstein&#39;s monster? How does one profitably think about that question? Today we have Lucas Smalldon on to help us think through these questions. </p>

<p>We reference Lucas&#39;s blog post titled <a href="https://barelymorethanatweet.com/2021/01/05/reconciling-determinism-and-free-will/" rel="nofollow">reconciling-determinism-and-free-will</a>. Because it&#39;s is barely more than a tweet, we&#39;ve included the entire post here as well: </p>

<hr>

<h1>Reconciling Free Will with Determinism</h1>

<p>Free will and determinism seem to conflict with each other. But the apparent conflict disappears when we understand that determinism and free will simply describe the world from radically different perspectives and at fundamentally different levels. Free will makes sense only <em>within</em> the context of the physical world, whereas determinism makes sense only from a perspective that is <em>outside</em> the physical world. Consider the determinist statement, “The future exists and has always existed”. It seems like a contradiction in terms, but only because our language forces us to express the idea misleadingly in terms of the past and future. If we assign special meanings to the temporal words in the statement—namely, if by <em>the future</em> we mean “objectively real events that from the perspective of our present have not yet happened”; and if by <em>always</em> we mean “transcending time itself” rather than the usual “existing across all time”—then the contradiction resolves. Assigning these special meanings allows us to express determinism as atemporal and objective: as a description of a physical reality <em>of which time is an attribute.</em> Conversely, free will, which is by far the more intuitive concept, is needed to explain certain kinds of events (i.e., choices) that occur <em>within</em> time, and thus within the physical world that determinism describes from the outside. Determinism and free will are compatible. We really do make choices. It’s just that, from an atemporal determinist perspective, these choices have “always” existed.</p>

<hr>

<p>Follow Lucas on <a href="https://twitter.com/reason_wit_me?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor" rel="nofollow">twitter</a> or check out his <a href="https://barelymorethanatweet.com/" rel="nofollow">blog</a>. </p>

<h1>We discuss</h1>

<ul>
<li>Levels of explanation regarding free will </li>
<li>The (in)compatibility of different levels of explanation</li>
<li>Why the lack of free will does not hinge on reductionism</li>
<li>Memetic arguments for the non-existence of free will </li>
<li>Whether we can have moral responsibility without free will </li>
<li>The universe as a filmstrip </li>
<li>Whether we&#39;re all just Frankenstein&#39;s monster </li>
</ul>

<h1>Socials</h1>

<ul>
<li>Follow us on Twitter at @IncrementsPod, @BennyChugg, @VadenMasrani</li>
<li>Come join our discord server! DM us on twitter or send us an email to get a supersecret link</li>
<li>Help us find freedom and get exclusive bonus content by becoming a patreon subscriber <a href="https://www.patreon.com/Increments" rel="nofollow">here</a>. Or give us one-time cash donations to help cover our lack of cash donations <a href="https://ko-fi.com/increments" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</li>
<li>Click dem like buttons on <a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_4wZzQyoW4s4ZuE4FY9DQQ" rel="nofollow">youtube</a></li>
</ul>

<p>How much do you want to want Frankenstein&#39;s monster? Send your answer down the tubes and over to <a href="mailto:incrementspodcast@gmail.com" rel="nofollow">incrementspodcast@gmail.com</a></p><p>Special Guest: Lucas Smalldon.</p><p><a rel="payment" href="https://www.patreon.com/Increments">Support Increments</a></p>]]>
  </content:encoded>
  <itunes:summary>
    <![CDATA[<p>While you&#39;re reading this you&#39;re having a thought. Something like &quot;wow, I love the Increments podcast&quot;, or &quot;those hosts are some handsome&quot; or &quot;I really wish people would stop talking about free will.&quot; Do you have a choice in the matter? Are you free to choose what you&#39;re thinking in any given moment, or is it determined by your genetics, environment, and existing ideas? Is the universe determined, are we all Frankenstein&#39;s monster? How does one profitably think about that question? Today we have Lucas Smalldon on to help us think through these questions. </p>

<p>We reference Lucas&#39;s blog post titled <a href="https://barelymorethanatweet.com/2021/01/05/reconciling-determinism-and-free-will/" rel="nofollow">reconciling-determinism-and-free-will</a>. Because it&#39;s is barely more than a tweet, we&#39;ve included the entire post here as well: </p>

<hr>

<h1>Reconciling Free Will with Determinism</h1>

<p>Free will and determinism seem to conflict with each other. But the apparent conflict disappears when we understand that determinism and free will simply describe the world from radically different perspectives and at fundamentally different levels. Free will makes sense only <em>within</em> the context of the physical world, whereas determinism makes sense only from a perspective that is <em>outside</em> the physical world. Consider the determinist statement, “The future exists and has always existed”. It seems like a contradiction in terms, but only because our language forces us to express the idea misleadingly in terms of the past and future. If we assign special meanings to the temporal words in the statement—namely, if by <em>the future</em> we mean “objectively real events that from the perspective of our present have not yet happened”; and if by <em>always</em> we mean “transcending time itself” rather than the usual “existing across all time”—then the contradiction resolves. Assigning these special meanings allows us to express determinism as atemporal and objective: as a description of a physical reality <em>of which time is an attribute.</em> Conversely, free will, which is by far the more intuitive concept, is needed to explain certain kinds of events (i.e., choices) that occur <em>within</em> time, and thus within the physical world that determinism describes from the outside. Determinism and free will are compatible. We really do make choices. It’s just that, from an atemporal determinist perspective, these choices have “always” existed.</p>

<hr>

<p>Follow Lucas on <a href="https://twitter.com/reason_wit_me?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor" rel="nofollow">twitter</a> or check out his <a href="https://barelymorethanatweet.com/" rel="nofollow">blog</a>. </p>

<h1>We discuss</h1>

<ul>
<li>Levels of explanation regarding free will </li>
<li>The (in)compatibility of different levels of explanation</li>
<li>Why the lack of free will does not hinge on reductionism</li>
<li>Memetic arguments for the non-existence of free will </li>
<li>Whether we can have moral responsibility without free will </li>
<li>The universe as a filmstrip </li>
<li>Whether we&#39;re all just Frankenstein&#39;s monster </li>
</ul>

<h1>Socials</h1>

<ul>
<li>Follow us on Twitter at @IncrementsPod, @BennyChugg, @VadenMasrani</li>
<li>Come join our discord server! DM us on twitter or send us an email to get a supersecret link</li>
<li>Help us find freedom and get exclusive bonus content by becoming a patreon subscriber <a href="https://www.patreon.com/Increments" rel="nofollow">here</a>. Or give us one-time cash donations to help cover our lack of cash donations <a href="https://ko-fi.com/increments" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</li>
<li>Click dem like buttons on <a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_4wZzQyoW4s4ZuE4FY9DQQ" rel="nofollow">youtube</a></li>
</ul>

<p>How much do you want to want Frankenstein&#39;s monster? Send your answer down the tubes and over to <a href="mailto:incrementspodcast@gmail.com" rel="nofollow">incrementspodcast@gmail.com</a></p><p>Special Guest: Lucas Smalldon.</p><p><a rel="payment" href="https://www.patreon.com/Increments">Support Increments</a></p>]]>
  </itunes:summary>
</item>
<item>
  <title>#60 - Creativity and Computational Universality (with Bruce Nielson) </title>
  <link>https://www.incrementspodcast.com/60</link>
  <guid isPermaLink="false">1c458a1d-9763-4387-9217-c1c90d50df23</guid>
  <pubDate>Wed, 03 Jan 2024 22:00:00 -0800</pubDate>
  <author>Ben Chugg and Vaden Masrani</author>
  <enclosure url="https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/https://chrt.fm/track/1F5B4D/aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/3229e340-4bf1-42a5-a5b7-4f508a27131c/1c458a1d-9763-4387-9217-c1c90d50df23.mp3" length="87432005" type="audio/mpeg"/>
  <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
  <itunes:author>Ben Chugg and Vaden Masrani</itunes:author>
  <itunes:subtitle>Bruce Nielsen makes his first appearance on the podcast to push us on machine intelligence and creativity, computational universality, Roger Penrose, and everything in between! </itunes:subtitle>
  <itunes:duration>1:58:42</itunes:duration>
  <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
  <itunes:image href="https://media24.fireside.fm/file/fireside-images-2024/podcasts/images/3/3229e340-4bf1-42a5-a5b7-4f508a27131c/episodes/1/1c458a1d-9763-4387-9217-c1c90d50df23/cover.jpg?v=2"/>
  <description>Today we [finally] have on someone who actually knows what they're actually talking about: Mr. Bruce Nielson of the excellent Theory of Anything Podcast. We bring him on to straighten us out on the topics of creativity, machine intelligence, Turing machines, and computational universality - We build upon our previous conversation way back in Ask Us Anything I: Computation and Creativity (https://www.incrementspodcast.com/52), and suggest listening to that episode first. 
Go follow Bruce on twitter (https://twitter.com/bnielson01) and check out his Theory of Anything Podcast here (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-theory-of-anything/id1503194218). 
(Also Vaden's audio was acting up a bit in this episode, we humbly seek forgiveness.) 
We discuss
Does theorem proving count as creativity?
Is AlphaGo creative?
Determinism, predictability, and chaos theory
Essentialism and a misunderstanding of definitions
Animal memes and understanding
Turing Machines and computational universality
Penrose's "proof" that we need new physics 
References
Ask Us Anything I: Computation and Creativity (https://www.incrementspodcast.com/52) (Listen first!)
Logic theorist (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic_Theorist) 
AlphaGo movie (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaGo_(film)) 
Socials
Follow us on Twitter at @IncrementsPod, @BennyChugg, @VadenMasrani
Come join our discord server! DM us on twitter or send us an email to get a supersecret link
Help us fund more 64 minute-long blog posts and get exclusive bonus content by becoming a patreon subscriber here (https://www.patreon.com/Increments). Or give us one-time cash donations to help cover our lack of cash donations here (https://ko-fi.com/increments).
Click dem like buttons on youtube (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_4wZzQyoW4s4ZuE4FY9DQQ)
Create us up an email with something imaginatively rote, cliche and formulaic, and mail that creative stinker over to incrementspodcast@gmail.com
 Special Guest: Bruce Nielson.
</description>
  <itunes:keywords>creativity, turing-completeness, universality, determinism, chaos theory</itunes:keywords>
  <content:encoded>
    <![CDATA[<p>Today we [finally] have on someone who actually knows what they&#39;re actually talking about: Mr. Bruce Nielson of the excellent Theory of Anything Podcast. We bring him on to straighten us out on the topics of creativity, machine intelligence, Turing machines, and computational universality - We build upon our previous conversation way back in <a href="https://www.incrementspodcast.com/52" rel="nofollow">Ask Us Anything I: Computation and Creativity</a>, and suggest listening to that episode first. </p>

<p>Go follow Bruce on twitter (<a href="https://twitter.com/bnielson01" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/bnielson01</a>) and check out his Theory of Anything Podcast <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-theory-of-anything/id1503194218" rel="nofollow">here</a>. </p>

<p>(Also Vaden&#39;s audio was acting up a bit in this episode, we humbly seek forgiveness.) </p>

<h1>We discuss</h1>

<ul>
<li>Does theorem proving count as creativity?</li>
<li>Is AlphaGo creative?</li>
<li>Determinism, predictability, and chaos theory</li>
<li>Essentialism and a misunderstanding of definitions</li>
<li>Animal memes and understanding</li>
<li>Turing Machines and computational universality</li>
<li>Penrose&#39;s &quot;proof&quot; that we need new physics </li>
</ul>

<h1>References</h1>

<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.incrementspodcast.com/52" rel="nofollow">Ask Us Anything I: Computation and Creativity</a> (Listen first!)</li>
<li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic_Theorist" rel="nofollow">Logic theorist</a> </li>
<li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaGo_(film)" rel="nofollow">AlphaGo movie</a> </li>
</ul>

<h1>Socials</h1>

<ul>
<li>Follow us on Twitter at @IncrementsPod, @BennyChugg, @VadenMasrani</li>
<li>Come join our discord server! DM us on twitter or send us an email to get a supersecret link</li>
<li>Help us fund more 64 minute-long blog posts and get exclusive bonus content by becoming a patreon subscriber <a href="https://www.patreon.com/Increments" rel="nofollow">here</a>. Or give us one-time cash donations to help cover our lack of cash donations <a href="https://ko-fi.com/increments" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</li>
<li>Click dem like buttons on <a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_4wZzQyoW4s4ZuE4FY9DQQ" rel="nofollow">youtube</a></li>
</ul>

<p>Create us up an email with something imaginatively rote, cliche and formulaic, and mail that creative stinker over to <a href="mailto:incrementspodcast@gmail.com" rel="nofollow">incrementspodcast@gmail.com</a></p><p>Special Guest: Bruce Nielson.</p><p><a rel="payment" href="https://www.patreon.com/Increments">Support Increments</a></p>]]>
  </content:encoded>
  <itunes:summary>
    <![CDATA[<p>Today we [finally] have on someone who actually knows what they&#39;re actually talking about: Mr. Bruce Nielson of the excellent Theory of Anything Podcast. We bring him on to straighten us out on the topics of creativity, machine intelligence, Turing machines, and computational universality - We build upon our previous conversation way back in <a href="https://www.incrementspodcast.com/52" rel="nofollow">Ask Us Anything I: Computation and Creativity</a>, and suggest listening to that episode first. </p>

<p>Go follow Bruce on twitter (<a href="https://twitter.com/bnielson01" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/bnielson01</a>) and check out his Theory of Anything Podcast <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-theory-of-anything/id1503194218" rel="nofollow">here</a>. </p>

<p>(Also Vaden&#39;s audio was acting up a bit in this episode, we humbly seek forgiveness.) </p>

<h1>We discuss</h1>

<ul>
<li>Does theorem proving count as creativity?</li>
<li>Is AlphaGo creative?</li>
<li>Determinism, predictability, and chaos theory</li>
<li>Essentialism and a misunderstanding of definitions</li>
<li>Animal memes and understanding</li>
<li>Turing Machines and computational universality</li>
<li>Penrose&#39;s &quot;proof&quot; that we need new physics </li>
</ul>

<h1>References</h1>

<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.incrementspodcast.com/52" rel="nofollow">Ask Us Anything I: Computation and Creativity</a> (Listen first!)</li>
<li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic_Theorist" rel="nofollow">Logic theorist</a> </li>
<li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaGo_(film)" rel="nofollow">AlphaGo movie</a> </li>
</ul>

<h1>Socials</h1>

<ul>
<li>Follow us on Twitter at @IncrementsPod, @BennyChugg, @VadenMasrani</li>
<li>Come join our discord server! DM us on twitter or send us an email to get a supersecret link</li>
<li>Help us fund more 64 minute-long blog posts and get exclusive bonus content by becoming a patreon subscriber <a href="https://www.patreon.com/Increments" rel="nofollow">here</a>. Or give us one-time cash donations to help cover our lack of cash donations <a href="https://ko-fi.com/increments" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</li>
<li>Click dem like buttons on <a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_4wZzQyoW4s4ZuE4FY9DQQ" rel="nofollow">youtube</a></li>
</ul>

<p>Create us up an email with something imaginatively rote, cliche and formulaic, and mail that creative stinker over to <a href="mailto:incrementspodcast@gmail.com" rel="nofollow">incrementspodcast@gmail.com</a></p><p>Special Guest: Bruce Nielson.</p><p><a rel="payment" href="https://www.patreon.com/Increments">Support Increments</a></p>]]>
  </itunes:summary>
</item>
<item>
  <title>#42 (C&amp;R, Chap 12+13) - Language and the Body-Mind Problem</title>
  <link>https://www.incrementspodcast.com/42</link>
  <guid isPermaLink="false">15a2e62d-ea06-460f-9748-6dec393c8666</guid>
  <pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2022 18:00:00 -0700</pubDate>
  <author>Ben Chugg and Vaden Masrani</author>
  <enclosure url="https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/https://chrt.fm/track/1F5B4D/aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/3229e340-4bf1-42a5-a5b7-4f508a27131c/15a2e62d-ea06-460f-9748-6dec393c8666.mp3" length="48629968" type="audio/mpeg"/>
  <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
  <itunes:author>Ben Chugg and Vaden Masrani</itunes:author>
  <itunes:subtitle>We wrestle with chapter 12 and 13 of Conjectures and Refutations, on the topic of the mind-body problem, theories of language, determinism, and causality. This one is a real doozy folks. </itunes:subtitle>
  <itunes:duration>50:39</itunes:duration>
  <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
  <itunes:image href="https://media24.fireside.fm/file/fireside-images-2024/podcasts/images/3/3229e340-4bf1-42a5-a5b7-4f508a27131c/episodes/1/15a2e62d-ea06-460f-9748-6dec393c8666/cover.jpg?v=1"/>
  <description>Ben and Vaden sit down to discuss what is possibly Popper's most confusing essay ever: Language and the Body-Mind Problem: A restatement of Interactionism. Determinism, causality, language, bodies, minds, and Ferris Buhler. What's not to like! Except for the terrible writing, spanning the entire essay. And before we get to that, we revolutionize the peer-review system in less than 10 minutes. 
We discuss
- Problems with the current peer-review system and how to improve it 
- The Mind-Body Problem
- How chaos theory relates to determinism 
- The four functions of language
- Why you don't argue with thermometers 
- Whether Popper thinks we can build AGI 
- Why causality occurs at the level of ideas, not just of atoms 
References 
- Link to the essay (http://www.ditext.com/popper/lbp.html), which you should most definitely read for yourself. 
- Ben's call to abolish peer-review (https://benchugg.com/writing/peer-review/) 
- Discrete Analysis Math Journal (https://discreteanalysisjournal.com/) 
- Pachinko (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pachinko) 
- Karl Buhler's theory of language (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organon_model) 
Quotes 
This, I think, solves the so-called problem of 'other minds'. If we talk to other people, and especially if we argue
with them, then we assume (sometimes mistakenly) that they also argue: that they speak intentionally about
things, seriously wishing to solve a problem, and not merely behaving as if they were doing so. It has often been seen
that language is a social affair and that solipsism, and doubts about the existence of other minds, become
selfcontradictory if formulated in a language. We can put this now more clearly. In arguing with other people (a thing
which we have learnt from other people), for example about other minds, we cannot but attribute to them intentions,
and this means, mental states. We do not argue with a thermometer. 
- C&amp;amp;R, Chap 13
Once we understand the causal behaviour of the machine, we realize that its behaviour is purely expressive or
symptomatic. For amusement we may continue to ask the machine questions, but we shall not seriously argue with it--
unless we believe that it transmits the arguments, both from a person and back to a person. 
- C&amp;amp;R, Chap 13
 If the behaviour of such a machine becomes very much like that of a man, then we may mistakenly believe that
the machine describes and argues; just as a man"who does not know the working of a phonograph or radio may
mistakenly think that it describes and argues. Yet an analysis of its mechanism teaches us that nothing of this kind
happens. The radio does not argue, although it expresses and signals.
- C&amp;amp;R, Chap 13
 It is true that the presence of Mike in my environment may be one of the physical 'causes' of my saying, 'Here is 
Mike'. But if I say, 'Should this be your argument, then it is contradictory', because I have grasped or realized that it is
so, then there was no physical 'cause' analogous to Mike; I do not need to hear or see your words in order to realize
that a certain theory (it does not matter whose) is contradictory. The analogy is not to Mike, but rather to my
realization that Mike is here.
- C&amp;amp;R, Chap 13
The fear of obscurantism (or of being judged an obscurantist) has prevented most anti-obscurantists from saying
such things as these. But this fear has produced, in the end, only obscurantism of another kind.
- C&amp;amp;R, Chap 13
When's the last time you argued with your thermometer? Tell us over at incrementspodcast@gmail.com 
Image Credit: http://humanities.exeter.ac.uk/modernlanguages/research/groups/linguistics/
</description>
  <itunes:keywords>mind-body problem, determinism, causality, language, Popper, Karl Buhler</itunes:keywords>
  <content:encoded>
    <![CDATA[<p>Ben and Vaden sit down to discuss what is possibly Popper&#39;s most confusing essay ever: <em>Language and the Body-Mind Problem: A restatement of Interactionism</em>. Determinism, causality, language, bodies, minds, and Ferris Buhler. What&#39;s not to like! Except for the terrible writing, spanning the entire essay. And before we get to that, we revolutionize the peer-review system in less than 10 minutes. </p>

<p><strong>We discuss</strong></p>

<ul>
<li>Problems with the current peer-review system and how to improve it </li>
<li>The Mind-Body Problem</li>
<li>How chaos theory relates to determinism </li>
<li>The four functions of language</li>
<li>Why you don&#39;t argue with thermometers </li>
<li>Whether Popper thinks we can build AGI </li>
<li>Why causality occurs at the level of ideas, not just of atoms </li>
</ul>

<p><strong>References</strong> </p>

<ul>
<li>Link to <a href="http://www.ditext.com/popper/lbp.html" rel="nofollow">the essay</a>, which you should most definitely read for yourself. </li>
<li>Ben&#39;s <a href="https://benchugg.com/writing/peer-review/" rel="nofollow">call to abolish peer-review</a> </li>
<li><a href="https://discreteanalysisjournal.com/" rel="nofollow">Discrete Analysis Math Journal</a> </li>
<li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pachinko" rel="nofollow">Pachinko</a> </li>
<li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organon_model" rel="nofollow">Karl Buhler&#39;s theory of language</a> </li>
</ul>

<p><strong>Quotes</strong> </p>

<blockquote>
<p><em>This, I think, solves the so-called problem of &#39;other minds&#39;. If we talk to other people, and especially if we argue<br>
with them, then we assume (sometimes mistakenly) that they also argue: that they speak intentionally about<br>
things, seriously wishing to solve a problem, and not merely behaving as if they were doing so. It has often been seen<br>
that language is a social affair and that solipsism, and doubts about the existence of other minds, become<br>
selfcontradictory if formulated in a language. We can put this now more clearly. In arguing with other people (a thing<br>
which we have learnt from other people), for example about other minds, we cannot but attribute to them intentions,<br>
and this means, mental states. We do not argue with a thermometer.</em> <br>
- C&amp;R, Chap 13</p>

<p><em>Once we understand the causal behaviour of the machine, we realize that its behaviour is purely expressive or<br>
symptomatic. For amusement we may continue to ask the machine questions, but we shall not seriously argue with it--<br>
unless we believe that it transmits the arguments, both from a person and back to a person.</em> <br>
- C&amp;R, Chap 13</p>

<p><em>If the behaviour of such a machine becomes very much like that of a man, then we may mistakenly believe that<br>
the machine describes and argues; just as a man&quot;who does not know the working of a phonograph or radio may<br>
mistakenly think that it describes and argues. Yet an analysis of its mechanism teaches us that nothing of this kind<br>
happens. The radio does not argue, although it expresses and signals.</em><br>
- C&amp;R, Chap 13</p>

<p><em>It is true that the presence of Mike in my environment may be one of the physical &#39;causes&#39; of my saying, &#39;Here is <br>
Mike&#39;. But if I say, &#39;Should this be your argument, then it is contradictory&#39;, because I have grasped or realized that it is<br>
so, then there was no physical &#39;cause&#39; analogous to Mike; I do not need to hear or see your words in order to realize<br>
that a certain theory (it does not matter whose) is contradictory. The analogy is not to Mike, but rather to my<br>
realization that Mike is here.</em><br>
- C&amp;R, Chap 13</p>

<p><em>The fear of obscurantism (or of being judged an obscurantist) has prevented most anti-obscurantists from saying<br>
such things as these. But this fear has produced, in the end, only obscurantism of another kind.</em><br>
- C&amp;R, Chap 13</p>
</blockquote>

<p>When&#39;s the last time you argued with your thermometer? Tell us over at <a href="mailto:incrementspodcast@gmail.com" rel="nofollow">incrementspodcast@gmail.com</a> </p>

<p><em>Image Credit</em>: <a href="http://humanities.exeter.ac.uk/modernlanguages/research/groups/linguistics/" rel="nofollow">http://humanities.exeter.ac.uk/modernlanguages/research/groups/linguistics/</a></p><p><a rel="payment" href="https://www.patreon.com/Increments">Support Increments</a></p>]]>
  </content:encoded>
  <itunes:summary>
    <![CDATA[<p>Ben and Vaden sit down to discuss what is possibly Popper&#39;s most confusing essay ever: <em>Language and the Body-Mind Problem: A restatement of Interactionism</em>. Determinism, causality, language, bodies, minds, and Ferris Buhler. What&#39;s not to like! Except for the terrible writing, spanning the entire essay. And before we get to that, we revolutionize the peer-review system in less than 10 minutes. </p>

<p><strong>We discuss</strong></p>

<ul>
<li>Problems with the current peer-review system and how to improve it </li>
<li>The Mind-Body Problem</li>
<li>How chaos theory relates to determinism </li>
<li>The four functions of language</li>
<li>Why you don&#39;t argue with thermometers </li>
<li>Whether Popper thinks we can build AGI </li>
<li>Why causality occurs at the level of ideas, not just of atoms </li>
</ul>

<p><strong>References</strong> </p>

<ul>
<li>Link to <a href="http://www.ditext.com/popper/lbp.html" rel="nofollow">the essay</a>, which you should most definitely read for yourself. </li>
<li>Ben&#39;s <a href="https://benchugg.com/writing/peer-review/" rel="nofollow">call to abolish peer-review</a> </li>
<li><a href="https://discreteanalysisjournal.com/" rel="nofollow">Discrete Analysis Math Journal</a> </li>
<li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pachinko" rel="nofollow">Pachinko</a> </li>
<li><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organon_model" rel="nofollow">Karl Buhler&#39;s theory of language</a> </li>
</ul>

<p><strong>Quotes</strong> </p>

<blockquote>
<p><em>This, I think, solves the so-called problem of &#39;other minds&#39;. If we talk to other people, and especially if we argue<br>
with them, then we assume (sometimes mistakenly) that they also argue: that they speak intentionally about<br>
things, seriously wishing to solve a problem, and not merely behaving as if they were doing so. It has often been seen<br>
that language is a social affair and that solipsism, and doubts about the existence of other minds, become<br>
selfcontradictory if formulated in a language. We can put this now more clearly. In arguing with other people (a thing<br>
which we have learnt from other people), for example about other minds, we cannot but attribute to them intentions,<br>
and this means, mental states. We do not argue with a thermometer.</em> <br>
- C&amp;R, Chap 13</p>

<p><em>Once we understand the causal behaviour of the machine, we realize that its behaviour is purely expressive or<br>
symptomatic. For amusement we may continue to ask the machine questions, but we shall not seriously argue with it--<br>
unless we believe that it transmits the arguments, both from a person and back to a person.</em> <br>
- C&amp;R, Chap 13</p>

<p><em>If the behaviour of such a machine becomes very much like that of a man, then we may mistakenly believe that<br>
the machine describes and argues; just as a man&quot;who does not know the working of a phonograph or radio may<br>
mistakenly think that it describes and argues. Yet an analysis of its mechanism teaches us that nothing of this kind<br>
happens. The radio does not argue, although it expresses and signals.</em><br>
- C&amp;R, Chap 13</p>

<p><em>It is true that the presence of Mike in my environment may be one of the physical &#39;causes&#39; of my saying, &#39;Here is <br>
Mike&#39;. But if I say, &#39;Should this be your argument, then it is contradictory&#39;, because I have grasped or realized that it is<br>
so, then there was no physical &#39;cause&#39; analogous to Mike; I do not need to hear or see your words in order to realize<br>
that a certain theory (it does not matter whose) is contradictory. The analogy is not to Mike, but rather to my<br>
realization that Mike is here.</em><br>
- C&amp;R, Chap 13</p>

<p><em>The fear of obscurantism (or of being judged an obscurantist) has prevented most anti-obscurantists from saying<br>
such things as these. But this fear has produced, in the end, only obscurantism of another kind.</em><br>
- C&amp;R, Chap 13</p>
</blockquote>

<p>When&#39;s the last time you argued with your thermometer? Tell us over at <a href="mailto:incrementspodcast@gmail.com" rel="nofollow">incrementspodcast@gmail.com</a> </p>

<p><em>Image Credit</em>: <a href="http://humanities.exeter.ac.uk/modernlanguages/research/groups/linguistics/" rel="nofollow">http://humanities.exeter.ac.uk/modernlanguages/research/groups/linguistics/</a></p><p><a rel="payment" href="https://www.patreon.com/Increments">Support Increments</a></p>]]>
  </itunes:summary>
</item>
  </channel>
</rss>
